What I Like In Porn, And In Me, I Guess

[trish]

I have twenty other things I should be writing about instead, but: Here's what I like in porn. I wish I could say that first of all I liked grammar and spelling, but experience has taught me that this is not actually the case; those are the things I want to be able to say I like, and I certainly have strong opinions about them most of the time, but as long as no one is reading over my shoulder, and usually no one is, I honestly don't care very much. I'm much more interested in reading about people being exploited because of power dynamics beyond their control, and the inversion of various power dynamics to change who's getting exploited.

There are specific scenarios I am particularly interested in: owner/pet, abduction, a very thin slice of medical, and anything with an established hierarchical structure that can be abused is right there. Schools? Oh hell yes. (It sort of icks me that I am all hell yes about this. I don't know that I'd even want to roleplay it. But... oh hell yes.) But I can get into a scenario that I might not like if it didn't focus on abuse of power and push my other buttons. If someone offers me an ageplay or incest story I will say no thank you, but if someone offers me an exploitation of power story and it includes ageplay or incest, well, I'm not gonna stop reading. I need to see him or her really get it.

There's something that doesn't really matter: sex and gender. OK, that's a lie. But the sex and/or gender of the person or people getting it; I can go either way or ways that aren't either way. If it's a woman getting it from a man, it pushes the "you worthless girl, accept your rightful place in the hierarchy" button. If it's a man getting it from a woman, it pushes the "I am in your hierarchy, subverting it" button. If it's queer, well, bonus, and if gender boundaries are transgressed, you are totally pushing on my gender theory buttons while simultaneously tripping my "genderfuck is hot" switch. I don't usually care for the whole forced-feminization thing --- sometimes done well it can be fun I guess. Forced masculinization would be interesting but I don't know that I've ever seen it. Maybe I should write some. Part of the problem with the forced-feminization stuff is that pretty soon they start to want it. That's a little hot, because they're assuming their natural deserved place at the bottom of a sexual hierarchy, but ultimately it's kind of boring, especially when they get all lovey at the end, uck.

Porn where two people flirt and then go to bed together and then are like "That was fun! Let's start dating!" is fucking boring as sin. Unless someone's getting the shit beat out of them in bed, or is initially resistant, or it's really well-written and engaging in terms of character, fuck it. If it is, I'm reading it like a story that has sex in it, and I'm going to click/flip to another one to actually get off when I'm done, or just get bored and stop reading porn. In contrast, if I am reading something not as porn and it has genderfuck abuse of hierarchical power in it, I'm not going to be able to guarantee you that I haven't masturbated to it. (The Circe chapter of Ulysses? Oh hell fucking yes. I am just saying. A female prostitute for a man butches up, genderfucks him, turns into a tiger, and flogs and fucks him simultaneously? And it's written as a play? Why am I not reading it right now? Oh right I'm blogging.)

Some friends of mine are really into mind control stuff. For a while I wondered if I was too, and so I read a bunch of stories tagged mind-control some places. Some of it was hot, but it seemed like sometimes mind control was being used as a crutch for raw straight-up abuse of power. Sure, anyone can make someone sit beneath them in a hierarchy with orbital mind control lazers. It's nice, like an appetizer or an opening band, but I bought my tickets because I wanted to see someone forced into sexual subjugation by raw fear, raw inability to resist, acceptance of an undesirable hierarchical structure. I'm sure there are some examples of it being done really well that would mash hard on my other buttons --- I was just browsing around --- but I wouldn't class it as A Big Thing for me.

Another thing that is probably relevant --- I pretty much only read furry porn online. I'll read normal people porn in books, but I usually like the furry stuff better. Why? Well, in some ways, it insulates me from the icky things about what I get off on --- these things happening to people, especially not-entirely-consenting people like I like to read about and imagine myself in the position of, are Holy Fuck Not OK. Furries (the walking talking animals, not the people who go to conventions and wear fabric ears) are not real. It is more OK to do Holy Fuck Not OK things to them, in this fiction I am getting psychosexually involved with, because they aren't real, they aren't even realisitic representations, they are fantasy creatures. The fact that I used to roleplay as one of them a lot certainly doesn't hurt my ability to get into that fantasy space, either.

Also it's sort of holy fuck not OK to do most of those things to me, mostly unless you are E, maybe a little bit unless you are R. Except I'm totally lying, because the guy who was macking on me at Anthrocon was all subtextually being "I am a male and you are a female and therefore you will subject yourself to me as pleases me" and if I hadn't been there with E and had limited time (she said I could go off with him if I wanted) I totally would have subjected myself to him as it pleased him. Except I might have flipped out at some point but that's another post. The point is, I had met this guy forty-eight hours ago and I was really hoping that he'd drag me around by the hair and spank me and maybe make me cry while sucking on his dick. Fuck! What are these thoughts doing in my head? Could I actually do that without getting all rape triggery? I don't know! I probably shouldn't find out with some guy I picked up at a con! But he might be going to Floating World and now I'm sort of tempted...

OK I guess that stopped being about porn. He's a guy! Am I objectifying him for his gender? Is that bad of me? I don't even know! If he weren't a guy I'd be like yeah you're cool but I know lots of awesome women. I mean I guess I would flirt. Although if a woman grabbed me by the hair within forty-eight hours of meeting me I'd probably want to be crying while going down on her too. Maybe? I don't know? Maybe I am just really horny lately? Why am I interested in crying? Why is that part of the picture both times? Is it OK to be uncomfortable about that? This is why I usually don't think about what I actually like, it makes me feel pretty twitchy. But it felt good to get it out. So, there you go! I like semi-consensual abuse of power with danger, fear, and symbolic reinforcement of problematic hierarchies. I wonder if I have time to masturbate before dinner.

Comments

[ironrose.livejournal.com]

Waitwaitwait did you slip it in there somewhere that you are going to Floating World? *looks all hopeful*

Um, right, we were talking about porn. I have one thing I really hate in porn, and that is the stories that start all non-consensual and stuff, and end up with the female object of abuse (FOA? This discussion isn't geeky enough, we need more acronyms) switching from "omg i hate you stop" to "omg please abuse me more, i have now learned to love the abuse".

I think I hate it because (a) you're mixing up nonconsensual with consensual, stop confusing me and (b) i have a trigger around the "she'll learn to like it" (or maybe it was "she secretly likes it even though she's saying she doesn't want it"?) sort of rape justification stuff.

I'm kind of punchy, sorry.

[mollycrucible.livejournal.com]

well at least you only have to be 19, and not 21, for this one, so maybe me and the boy will go next year... which is an eternity away.

[trishkitten.livejournal.com]

I am probably not going to floating world but the fact that this dude may be going pushed me from definitely not to probably not... I need to talk to E...

I have strong mixed feelings about that trope! My negative feelings are much like yours, but I *feels guilty* also really like having my consensual and nonconsensual confused until I don't know what I like and I don't like and it feels really great but is also utterly terrifying.

[ironrose.livejournal.com]

That trope has knocked me out of my happy place so many times. But I mention it only because it's unusual. There are actually, er, lots of things that get me hot which I find incredibly problematic if I step back and think about it.

My sledgehammer of cope for problematic fantasies is simply to relegate it to *only* fantasy. There are many many things which I find hot in a fantasy in my head which I am just not willing to do in the real world, not even in a consensual kink setting, because I just wouldn't be able to enjoy them due to how problematic I find it. Some day I'll probably decide to play with them, but for now I'm content with having them be just fantasies.

The less sledgehammer-like options for me seem to be more about getting my intellectualizing in line with my gut. For instance, I actually had some trouble coming to terms with kink when I first found it, but I clearly enjoyed it and didn't want to stop. This just got better with exposure and also with slowly sorting out my reactions to scenes and...I don't know. I was clearly working on trying to figure out if I thought kink was actually good for me or not. I'm not sure what was actually involved in coming to a decision on it.

[oxytocin-junkie.livejournal.com]

I like people whose sexualities are meta.

[trishkitten.livejournal.com]

Is this meta? I just thought it was problematic. :)

[oxytocin-junkie.livejournal.com]

I see. I misunderstood.

[trishkitten.livejournal.com]

Maybe not! Maybe I misunderstood. I'm not sure what you meant.

[oxytocin-junkie.livejournal.com]

Well it's the potentially subtle difference between "That's hot and it's also problematic" and "That's hot (partially) because it's problematic." The second one would be meta, but it isn't what you're saying.

[trishkitten.livejournal.com]

Actually I wonder if it's true that it's partially hot because it's problematic. I'm genuinely not sure; I'll have to think about it more. Thanks for the avenue of inquiry!

[postrodent.livejournal.com]

Your consumption of porn and mine are eerily similar, including the use of furry and other 'fantastic' porn to soften the Not OK of stuff that gets me hot, and the loose theme of "You're using me to get off, I'm using your hierarchical power to give me permission to do what I really want to do but normally can't and need to do in order to get off". And I too read some stuff that gets me hugely hot, but at the same time I'm like, "Whoa, whoa. First of all, this was written at about a 6th grade level, and second, it's even more awful than the stuff that usually gets me off. Plus add in a bunch of pointless male guilt about doing things that boys aren't supposed to do, and some slightly less pointless feminist guilt about participating in some hideously patriarchial narratives.

It's at times like this that Maurice Godelier's comment that "It is not sexuality which haunts society, but society which haunts the body's sexuality" floats up to the surface of my brain. Also, I was just rereading the Illuminatus Trilogy and the random comment, "everybody wants [to have] sex with their enemy" jumped out at me, and I was like, whoa, yeah. Men are my enemy in some deep instinctive sense. Men who support patriarchy are _definitely_ my enemies. And yet, some part of me wants to go to bed with them.

[circuit-four.livejournal.com]

Men who support patriarchy are _definitely_ my enemies. And yet, some part of me wants to go to bed with them.

What about large authoritarian felines? *claws up the nape up your neck somethin' fierce*

[postrodent.livejournal.com]

Those are pretty good. ^_____^

[trishkitten.livejournal.com]

Oh wow! Yes! Yes to everything! We share a porn-brain! I'm not sure if this is useful in any way.

[postrodent.livejournal.com]

There's actually only one porn brain; it's a throbbing mass of eroplasm that lives next door to Infinite Fun Space. But we _definitely_ seem to be wired to the same region of it. :)

Slightly more seriously... I think this problematic, "I don't like you but I want to fuck you anyway" reaction to people who manifest patriarchal power is a pretty common thing, otherwise there wouldn't be this -vast- number of porn narratives about it. It's almost certainly connected to our ooky tribe/pack relations reflexes, which are burned into the structures of our minds like a regrettable pop album on a CD-ROM. Unfortunately these reflexes not only manifest themselves in bed, which can be fun, but in the voting booth, which is very dangerous. This is yet another reason why I'd prefer to be running "biological organism" as an emulation layer, rather than on the original hardware.

[trishkitten.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but if you're in emulation, you can pop an abstraction barrier and resist... I guess in the future there will people who insist on not doing that much like today there are people who think safewording isn't hardcore enough.

[petite-mewsette.livejournal.com]

Me, I can only deal with non-con if its like, "She said no but secretly TOTALLY LOVED IT."

Also crying during sex is the best. THE BEST.

[trishkitten.livejournal.com]

Really? Really? I guess I associate crying during sex with being raped and so I usually try not to do it. Maybe I should try it? I don't know.

[petite-mewsette.livejournal.com]

Nah. My g-spot makes me cry. Anything which is a physically intense sensation like that usually makes me feel overwhelmed and weep. I'm not talking about hysterical, hiccuping sobs -- but I get flushed and tears run out of my eyes. In a lot of ways, it helps me to cope with really intense sensations, sensations which aren't unpleasant but are sometimes a lot to handle. :)

[rushthatspeaks.livejournal.com]

I tend to find myself reading ageplay a fair bit because it is more likely to contain the particular form of hierarchy-subversion I like-- if the manga of Loveless were actually porn, it would be the best thing ever (note: not anime, they fucked that up majorly)-- but apart from that, you and I seem to have pretty similar taste.

Up to and including interacting/wanting to interact with a guy in a particular way, and then wandering off and going 'ZOMG was that okay for the following huge set of reasons'? And the conclusion I came to was, if done safely it could help me work out some major stuff, so I'm going for it, but YMMV.

[trishkitten.livejournal.com]

I should really just order that manga, though I have been scared to, because the anime was TRIGGER CENTRAL, WARNING, MAY CURL UP IN FETAL POSITION ON COUCH. I've gotten way better about a bunch of that stuff since then though.

Huh! If it works for you maybe I should try it. Hm.

[(Anonymous)]

I've mentioned this before, but I'm really sorry that I didn't know you or Loveless well enough to warn you before that...

--R

[trishkitten.livejournal.com]

Incidentally, for those of you curious, I did not have time to masturbate before dinner. I am sort of tempted to skip the concert I am supposed to go to tonight and have some sort of wild sex party instead. Anyone in? I'm mostly joking...

I need to pounce E, like, yesterday.

[(Anonymous)]

It is more OK to do Holy Fuck Not OK things to them, in this fiction I am getting psychosexually involved with, because they aren't real, they aren't even realisitic representations, they are fantasy creatures.

Oh, that is so useful. Could you point me at some of this?

Because as you know, I read a lot of slash, and the difficulty with slash is that these are characters of whom you are generally very fond, and so when the writer writes them well being dominated and hurt, it's kind of upsetting. But hot. I had this really odd experience reading my OTP from the fandom I write in most often-- the author had turned one of them into a demon, and sent the other to Hell to get him back, which involved a whole lot of being raped and tortured by his former lover who was now evil. In really graphic ways. And my brain-split between "this is a horrible, out-of-character way to portray these people" and "OMG HAWT" was... difficult to navigate.

But it sounds from your description like the furry porn probably has some of the things I actually fantasize about in it. And I would enjoy seeing that not-just-in-my-head.

This is why I usually don't think about what I actually like, it makes me feel pretty twitchy.

Yeah. Agreement.

Do you have the thing where when you're fantasizing about something really violent/objectifying/etc, fantasy/arousingness adds this filter of "but this is actually okay, and so ways I would actually react to this situation (dissociating, etc) wouldn't actually happen"? Cuz I actually lost that filter for a while (probably work-related), and that sucked. And it tends to disappear again when I start analyzing my fantasies from a feminist/etc. perspective, and I'm wondering whether that's part of what you mean here? Or if it's different.

Could I actually do that without getting all rape triggery? I don't know! I probably shouldn't find out with some guy I picked up at a con!

Would it wreck it if you, like, talked to him about it beforehand and were all like, "la, trauma history, what to do if I'm triggered, la"? Because that seems like it might remove some of the charge, but also make it way more likely to go well. And still be damn hot, really.

So, there you go! I like semi-consensual abuse of power with danger, fear, and symbolic reinforcement of problematic hierarchies. I wonder if I have time to masturbate before dinner.

You're kind of awesome, y'know?

<3,
--R

[heartexalted.livejournal.com]

I think it's really great that you're so open about what turns you on. So many people are inhibited about it...even within the scene! Maybe someday, you and I should talk about all the things that SHOULDN'T turn us on but DO! ;-)

[mollycrucible.livejournal.com]

i like your usage of " Ok, that's a lie ".

you know what i have found to be super hot in real life? switches roles in the middle of a scene, oh man, that's hot. H-O-T-T.

[trishkitten.livejournal.com]

I love that too! As long as I was on top for the first half ;)

[alienchangeling.livejournal.com]

"I don't usually care for the whole forced-feminization thing --- sometimes done well it can be fun I guess. . . . Part of the problem with the forced-feminization stuff is that pretty soon they start to want it."

I want to say something to the rest of this post, but I don't have the alertness to write a long post at the moment so I will instead offer the following observation: I've discovered that the major place where I part ways with the forced-feminization crowd is that I'm wired to enjoy feminization portrayed as an empowering experience. Unfortunately, at least in Internet porn, this is far less common than the alternative.